Ultrasounds are routinely done now to check for gestational age before performing the procedure, etc.  This bill was to ensure that the woman was given an option to see those images.

Mr. Merton,

You proceed on the mistaken assumption that people are stupid and will buy into that bilge. That requiring before a “choice” is made more information be made available, or taxpayer funds not being used to support infanticide equates to state sanctioned rape.

The only people dumb enough to buy the smut you are peddling is the choir you are preaching to.

The only thing that takes us back to the 1800s is the pro-abort lobby’s regurgitated and nonsensical talking points.

“Sanctioned rape”

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/02/15/government-sanctioned-rape-in-state-virginia-and-texas

One more thing to add.  I agree that the government has overstepped its bounds in telling us what to do with our lives in many cases.

One big instance is the story out this week of the child whose home-packed lunch was taken away and she had to buy the school-provided lunch instead because the government’s food police thought her family did not provide her with the proper nutrition in her lunch. 

I don’t even have children and that makes my blood boil.  So, now Big Brother can decide what you pack for your kids’ lunches?  And confiscate it if it is not what they decide is approved.

Makes you wonder if the “pro-choice” folks are “pro-lunch” and think women (who are the most likely ones to be packing lunches - no gender bias intended here) should not have the right to choose what they give their own children.  Nah, not likely.

“You know what”

You are wrong in your thought process.  If you are truly “against abortion”  you should rethink your position that it might be OK for everyone else.  That is a bit like saying in the 1800s “Well, I personally don’t own slaves, but we should not tell anyone else not to have any” or in Germany “Well, I did not actually kill any Jews, but should we mandate that they not be sent to the concentration camps and the crematories.”  In reality, if something is wrong, it is wrong and can’t be “right” or “a right.”  Otherwise, right and wrong are merely what suits the situation at the moment, and can change at any time. 

Comparing vasectomies and tubal ligations with abortions is counterintuitive.  In the first 2 cases, you truly ARE talking about a person’s right to decide what to do with their body.  And I agree that is the individual’s choice In the latter, there is another life to consider.  A very small, defenseless life that will be shredded and discarded like 54 million others since 1973. 

This law is not even making a change to Roe v Wade which makes it legal for a woman to kill her unborn child right up through the 9th month of pregnancy.  The proposed law is just showing a pregnant woman the fact of what she is considering doing.  And if seeing her child’s heartbeat or watching him or her move in the womb might make that woman reconsider doing a un-doable act, then that mother and that child have been saved from death for the baby a lifetime of regret for the mother.

And people should not kid themselves.  It is rare for a woman to have “her doctor” commit an abortion.  Most abortionists are in abortion mills who have never before seen their ‘patient’  and never will again.  Hardly the continuation of care one would expect from one’s health care provider.

No one should tell anyone else what to do with ther body…what they put on it or what’s growing in it.  All of us will answer to God for the choice we make.  If the roles were reversed, it wouldn’t be a law and Men would be allowed to make the decision with thier doctor.  To make my point, men can make the first available appointment to have a vaisectomy (not sure about spelling) with out their wife consent or a waiting period.  But a women has a 30 day waiting period to have her tubes tied if she’s had no childern. As if, women can’t make a choice about not wanting childern-without the govenment telling them to think about it again.  It wasn’t until the mid 90’s that they changed the law so a women no longer needed her husbands consent.  Its Crazy!

I personally think abortion is wrong but its not for me to decide what’s best for another women and it certainly not the governments role.

The facts are not exactly clear in this article.  The argument that has often been presented to women is that the baby they carry is not yet really a “life.”  Harder to dispute that when one can see it.  I believe, as a woman, that I have a responsibility to protect life at all levels.  I continue to be disheartened at the 90% plus abortion rates of babies who supposedly are identified as having Down syndrome.  Abortion is often a form of legal eugenics.

The actual language was to include a requirement that the woman be given the opportunity to view the image and whether the woman availed herself of that opportunity.

“Abortion; informed consent.  Requires that, as a component of informed consent to an abortion, to determine gestation age, every pregnant female shall undergo ultrasound imaging and be given an opportunity to view the ultrasound image of her fetus prior to the abortion. The medical professional performing the ultrasound must obtain written certification from the woman that the opportunity was offered and whether the woman availed herself of the opportunity to see the ultrasound image or hear the fetal heartbeat. A copy of the ultrasound and the written certification shall be maintained in the woman’s medical records at the facility where the abortion is to be performed.”

I suppose it is easier to forget that this is a human because then that affords the baby rights.  Currently, there are arbitrary points in the gestational period when it is being recognized as a human being and afforded certain rights; however abortions can and still do occur all along the course of development.  An interesting but most troubling fact.

I saw a quote in the Washington Post in a letter to the editor that I thought was particularly meaningful in this debate:

“No one in this country can be executed without due process. This ultrasound bill is as close as we have gotten to giving these unborn babies a fair trial. Unfortunately, for them, there is no appeal.”

Pretty much says it all for me.

The subject of this forum has gotten a bit off course and that is fine, but I want to state again that I disagree with Ms. Ryan’s position on this matter.  The only stress that really might come of having the ultrasound would be the woman’s realization of the magnitude of her ‘choice’ if she continues on her planned course of having her baby killed.  At least with the ultrasound image, she would have a memento of the child she had carried, albeit briefly. 

I would imagine seeing her unborn baby’s sonar photograph while he or she was still living might sway some women to not abort - and then make the decision about raising her child of giving him or her up for adoption.  In this day and age, it is hard to believe that there are people who still don’t want to believe that a human pregnancy IS a human baby in utero.  By pretending otherwise, and not having to see evidence of that on the sonar screen, a woman may have her child kild only to realize/admit later - possibly in a subsequent “wanted” pregnancy - what she had done.  By then it would be much to late to undo her “choice” - and that, I imagine, would be a very hard thing to live with.

Of course we can agree to disagree. I meant nothing personal, nor do I ever. Sometimes I paint too broadly and bluntly, an admitted flaw. This is an issue that probably stirs more passion than most for many people.

I am aware of the PLI, it’s been around since before the CWGs. I considered taking it 5 or 6 years back, but scheduling did not permit. At the time I was teaching HVAC 2nd year at Chesterfield Tech at night as well as an elective Controls and Automation class. When scheduling did permit, I looked at the course syllabus and concluded that the majority of what it covered I had already learned about how local gov’t works and that that spot in that class was better suited for someone who needed it more. Unfunded Federal and State mandates and limitations on localities are a big bugaboo of mine, I suspect you’ll learn about just how badly some of those policies handstring localities.

FYI, I specifically asked the BoS at their meeting last week during public comment if they plan to eliminate P and R, because of some of the “scuttlebutt” I had heard and seen put forward, including on your group’s pages.  Several of them visibly shook their heads and the response during supervisor comment was that it was a rumor that was not based in fact. The best way, I have found, to clarify intentions (or get them on the record) is to ask them point blank :). I’ve learned the hard way not to base opinion on what “someone heard” or without evaluation of the source’s “interests”. Sometimes when people are personally or emotionally invested and funding is an issue, exaggeration takes place.

That said, if we have to choose between more funding to P and R, or “investing” in them as some put it, and critical services, we’ll have to make hard choices. It doesn’t do any good to have nice parks and areas if we don’t have the police we need to keep the scum out of the county (See: Occupy Wall Street movement for an example).

It’s also foolish and irresponsible to be making more “investments” when we don’t even have money to take care of what we already have (See: Powhatan County Water and Sewer and most of our current facilities) or to attract events that may or may not come to our locality.

I’ve also heard the same old rumblings of those who want to host an annual tournament, which was the basis for the “hotel study” at taxpayer expense. In other words, some wizards of smart have decided that we need to improve water and sewer in the village area, build a hotel in the area, sidewalks….basically “invest” millions of dollars, all to attract and host a tournament that would last one week out of the year. With no regard for the expenses and usage for the remaining 51 weeks. Another black hole of taxpayer funding. It was dissected and discussed at length even here on this forum a while back.  It isn’t the Super Bowl, and the “investment” and recurring costs will far outweigh the return. It wouldn’t even pay for itself in 20 years.

Darrell G, let’s admit we are different, to be so is our right and what makes our opinions, where we can hopefully learn about others and ourselves. The head in the sand comment was a little overboard, respect other’s opinions, it leads to great conversations. You may not agree with me/all, but it stimulates the mind’s, ponder other’s ideas and thoughts! 
You seem to be conservative and I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative.I respect that.your opinion and your knowledge and experience that you share. And No, I am not sucking up to you to change what you believe in, I know I can never change that.Here is an interesting article about the differences in liberal and conservatives , not that I hold it valid, bu t research it for self, http://on.fb.me/wi4hp8  You seem to be well spoken and knowledgeable about issues in the county. I saw you at the last BOS meeting and it it appeared you supported Powhatan Parks and Recs, that is one of my passions also. Please, if you haven’t, check out the following face book pages to support interests in the county, for Parks and Recs, http://on.fb.me/wi4hp8 and Citizens of Powhatan for Responsible Government phttp://on.fb.me/wi4hp8 which we am involved in. If you read the Powhatan Today, I hope you read my letter to the editor that was published in the printed edition a few weeks ago to stop all the bickering and let’s work together.
A good dialogue would be appreciated if you desire. I have read the 530 page budget retreat packet on line plus the 2011 auditor’s report, so I consider myself somewhat informed on county’s business. Plus with joining PLI for this year’s term, I have become greatly informed on the insides of the county, including Mr. Whitaker’s excellent tutorial of the county’s budget last week, which was great!! Have you taken the PLI course, it is great, informs you in depth about the county and helps you become that much more of an involved citizen in the county. To become a citizen that can know the county to really help it!!